JONATHAN MAITLAND Interview
Playwright, Dead Sheep
Monday 21 – Saturday 26 November at Guildford’s Yvonne Arnaud Theatre
How relevant is Dead Sheep, post Brexit?
“Unbelievably! Dead Sheep is about a Tory government in 1989 split over Europe and the agonising conflicts
of loyalty that followed. It has been exactly the same story in 2016. The timing couldn't be better. There are
some scenes that feel so current it's spooky. For example when two ministers discuss the possibility of
quitting the EU, one of them says: ‘We can't leave Europe now. It'd be too complicated. Like the political
equivalent of reversing a vasectomy.’”
The parallels seem almost uncanny…
“You’re telling me. They say ‘history doesn't repeat itself, it rhymes’, and this story rhymes perfectly with the
earlier one. The key reason why Geoffrey and Margaret fell out was Europe. It was the fatal fault line that ran
through the Tory Party in the 1980s. As we know, it’s still a bit of an issue now, to put it mildly. And then, as
now, a seemingly impregnable PM made a fatal miscalculation. In Thatcher's case, it was underestimating
Howe; in Cameron's, it was calling the referendum.”
What made you write it?
“It’s a fantastic story, and everyone remembers Geoffrey Howe’s electrifying speech which brought down Mrs
Thatcher. It was totally unexpected and a brilliant piece of oratory. It’s gone down in history as one of the
greatest political speeches ever. But what makes it special is that no one could have predicted it: Geoffrey
was famously described as having the speech making skills of a ‘dead sheep’ by his opposite number, Dennis
Healy. He was the Mouse That Roared.”
Why base the play on Geoffrey Howe?
“I’ve always been fascinated by him. He brought about the end of Margaret Thatcher and Thatcherism, and
yet he was quiet, uncharismatic and the butt of jokes. He was a fascinating mixture of Political Dartboard and
Great Statesman – Captain Mainwaring meets William Gladstone.”
There have been many plays and films about this era: what’s new about this play?
“The film The Iron Lady and the play Handbagged and various TV films and dramas about Mrs Thatcher were
entertaining but treated Geoffrey Howe - for understandable reasons - as a bit part player. He was more than
that. He was a great statesman and the key to understanding Margaret Thatcher. You can chart her rise and
fall through her relationship with him. And it now feels more relevant than ever, as I said: political infighting
is very conducive to good drama. The Howe element was the most dramatic bit of the whole tale but
everyone left it out - until now.”
How would Geoffrey feel about Brexit?
“He sadly passed away last year but I suspect he's been spinning furiously ever since the result was
announced.”
So is this play about Margaret or Geoffrey?
“Good question! Both really. But primarily Geoffrey and the agonising conflicts of loyalty he faced. The reason
it’s been so popular (it broke the box office record at the Park Theatre London, where it received its world
premiere) is because so many people associate with his story: a man caught between two strong women. In
his case, the women were Margaret Thatcher and his wife, Elspeth Howe, a formidable, witty feminist who
was a champion of women’s rights. Fascinatingly, Margaret and Elspeth loathed each other. One observer
described them as ‘wasps in a jam jar’ – that’s a fantastic starting point for a play.”
Howe was famously uncharismatic: isn't that a problem for the hero of a play?
“Not at all. I think uncharismatic people are really interesting. It’s the quiet ones you’ve got to watch. ‘He
who swims with his fin submerged eats the heartiest breakfast’, as they say. The narrative arc of Geoffrey’s
story is amazing. He went from being a man who was famous for having no oratorical skills at all – hence the
label of ‘dead sheep’ – to making one of the greatest political speeches ever. That’s an amazing journey. And
when you add the comedy and tragedy that occurred along the way, it makes for a fantastic, entertaining
story.”
Was it a risk to cast a man (Steve Nallon, of Spitting Image) as Mrs Thatcher?
“I was worried to begin with. My friend Alastair McGowan, the comedic actor, suggested it. We gave it a go
because I like taking risks. And when Steve read the part for the first time in front of a public audience it was a
no brainer. Everyone was mesmerised. This is no impersonation: Steve is a brilliant actor. Indeed many people
still haven’t twigged that Mrs Thatcher is being played by a man! It’s one of the most nuanced, compelling,
comi-tragic performances I’ve seen.”
Tickets for Dead Sheep are on sale now! You can book yours by calling the Yvonne Arnaud Theatre
Box Office on (01483) 44 00 00 or by visiting the website at www.yvonne-arnaud.co.uk